This morning, I read this tweet:
Because I’m with a straight group, G-A-Y owned by @JeremyJoseph won’t let us in. That’s just as bad as homophobia in my view. Awful.
— Ethan Bourne (@EthanBourneUK) May 29, 2012
So is it any more appropriate for a gay club to deny entry to a group of straight men, than it would be for a straight club to deny entry to a group of gay men? @EthanBourneUK clearly thinks not.
G-A-Y at the London Astoria - the club has moved from here now, but their door policy remains the same
G-A-Y, and, indeed, all so-called “gay” venues, were set up as a safe space by their proprietors; a place where the customers could feel free to be themselves, to cruise and chat to other people of the same sexual orientation, knowing that they wouldn’t be picked on for their sexuality. The only reason they exist is that existing venues did not cater for these needs.
Is it appropriate that the club barred Ethan and his friends? I’d say yes, it is – the reason for this is that the people inside want to know that they can be whoever they want to be. Some years ago, I remember going to Heaven, before it had changed hands, and noting on many occasions that one end of the main dancefloor was predominantly straight men. Straight women had started going, in order to be able to enjoy themselves without fear of being harassed or people coming on to them; and straight men followed. This created an unusual – and not particularly pleasant – atmosphere. The men didn’t appreciate being eyed up, and made their sexuality quite clear with their body language and dress sense. I even remember a friend coming up to me and saying to me:
I know this is going to sound weird coming from a straight guy, but don’t you think it’s really straight in here tonight?
Many gay venues are now finding themselves a destination for hen parties – last time I was in Manchester’s Canal Street, I saw several groups bar hopping, while groups of straight men followed in their wake. This diluted the fun and playful atmosphere of the “gay village” and made me want to leave. I didn’t appreciate their groups of loud, drunk, straight woman with angel wings and head bands.
This isn’t the first time Joseph has courted controversy. In January 2012, he said that straight girls wouldn’t be welcome at an appearance by X-Factor boy band One Direction. He defended his decision by pointing out that the club’s “a lesbian and gay club.”
Is this as bad as homophobia? Again, I’d argue that no, it’s not. If you take the definition of homophobia as irrational fear of homosexual people, then of course the two aren’t the same. It’s simply trying to keep a space safe, comfortable, and pleasant for everyone inside.
Other clubs ban groups of same gender people (including groups of men), on the basis that stag parties cause trouble; or they offer discounts to women on ‘ladies’ night’.
When British society reaches the point where clubs no longer have to describe themselves as gay or gay friendly – because everywhere is – then they will no longer have the right to bar straight groups. Until that point, I think they should continue with their policy if they wish.
What do you think? Please let me know your views below.
We all like to take a straight pal or two out occasionally – but take them to a gay-friendly venue, like a club in Dalston. Not G-A-Y. And if it’s a group – then go somewhere straight and just cope with Kaiser Chiefs and New Look handbags for one night.
When all of London is gay friendly the gay community will still want their own clubs. There are always going to be sex bars and men only joints. G-A-Y is a very obvious venue to go to, everyone has heard of it. There are other gay bars that are more off the radar.
Still, to turn down someone on the basis that they’re straight is discrimination. Yes the straight people should know better, yes the gay people would rather they weren’t there. But I think we want to lead by example, and if a straight pub said me and my friends couldn’t go there because we were gay then that would be a court case. Problem is, we’ve no interest in straight bars as they’re largely shit, whereas everyone loves a boogie in a gay bar!
Thanks for linking to my Guardian piece.
Jack x
You’re so right about Manchester. When I first started going out there at 17, it was great to be able to be completely OK with being the (newly out) me without any fear of the repurcussions. Over the years, the hen parties and those they attract have really got in the way from what I can see. One bar did ban high heels in an attempt to keep out the hen parties. When there is the feel that there are marauding groups of straight guys, it just becomes uncomfortable.
However, that said, I wouldn’t want to ban reasonably well mixed gay/straight groups of people. Didn’t there used to be some kind of (unwritten?) rule at Trade that straight people could go as long as they were accompanied by a gay person?
I do wonder though if a predominantly straight group was being taken by a gay guy into GAY of all places, then one would presume that they weren’t going to cause any trouble, other than perhaps turning down potential suitors? And it has to be said, they’re surely pretty mad in the first place for happily going to a place whose name we shall not speak, nor doors pass unless entirely intoxicated, lol.
All that said, Darren is spot on, one does not have a right to enter a licenced venue and admission can be refused without reason, so I guess they should have just gone to one of the many, many other bars in Soho.
Also, given the 8 tweets from last night, and the tweets this morning about his hangover, maybe they should have simply refused entry to the lot of them for being drunk.
You’ve pushed my button now…;-)
Gay venues are destinations for these women and straight men because of stereotyping in the media “you gays are so much fun” and a belief that women wont get hit on. Also, remember that many straight people want to socialize with gay men and women because they believe that’s what we struggled to achieve through equality. So what’s the problem? Oh, it’s us.
Allowing gay culture to be viewed as being ‘fabulous, gorgeous, fun’ is what attracts the crowd that GAY and other venues want to ban. It insults me because the reality of gay is very different from fabulous all the time.. Seriously, if you’re going to clubs or bars with young drunk women, flicking their hair, and being annoying – you’re most definitely in the wrong place.
Please know that not all straight venues are the domain of that mindset and the young “chavvy” scene. They are not all about rock and handbags. Every gay man does not love a ‘boogie in a gay bar’. There is a very large underground club scene that is about unity, inclusion and a fucking good time with amazing music. The originators of gay clubbing back in the day , Paradise Garage etc. were never about exclusion.
Clubs cannot discriminate based on sexuality, but instead use the door staff to enforce a policy. Their job is to make sure the mix of people is safe and comfortable. I’m happy with that, mostly I’ve been happy that the embarrassing camp, gay men are kept out of the clubs I go to.
“When British society reaches the point where clubs no longer have to describe themselves as gay or gay friendly then they will no longer have the right to bar straight groups.”
As some of you know I’m a regular gay clubber on the straight scene, I’d suggest it’s not the clubs that are having trouble integrating and embracing anybody of any race or gender, but gay culture itself.
Most gay men I know prefer to patronise gay-only venues on the basis that it’s safer , secure and they can be comfortable to behave as they wish. The truth is, many gay men want to score sex or flirt, but they are uncomfortable doing that in front of heterosexuals. So, how equal are we if we feel we cannot do that? When we say like-minded, we really mean like-gendered. It’s one thing holding hands in public, its another actually flirting and cruising in public the way heterosexuals do.
My experience in clubs in Britain as a gay man is that people really don’t care. I’ve been embraced and welcomed by some amazing people on the dancefloor who have gone on to become great friends.
If a venue calls itself a “club” then I’m not interested, regardless of who it caters for.
I think it’s crass when hen-nights think they can wonder around in their stupid shoes and pink sashes thinking “it’s fuuuun!!”. Only for them. You (as the gay community) have been pushed underground and marginalized enough without having to share your venues.
May your dances be vigorous and your clubs be rainbow. I’ll have a G&T in the pub next door.
(I’m straight, female and in the theatre industry)
I wrote about this last year for So So Gay, as I entirely disagree. http://sosogay.org/2011/g-a-y-dont-disciminate-against-the-straights/
To summarise, any straight person offended by the LGBT lifestyle is simply not going to go to a club called G-A-Y, or any other well-known Soho gay bar. Moreover, people who haven’t come to terms with their sexuality yet are extremely unlikely to be jumping into a club like this either. The opportunity to explore one’s sexuality doesn’t require a gay-only space. I understand it helps, but gay bars aren’t purely meat markets and pulling grounds.
Sexuality is a very fluid thing and no two gay men look the same. Identifying yourself as a member of the LGBT community doesn’t require an exclusive smell, hair style, taste in music, so why does G-A-Y feel it can make these pigeon-hole judgements on its equal paying clientele?
As gay culture has an increasing presence in popular TV shows and films, and pop stars are more open about their sexuality, there is going to be a natural rise in interest from heterosexuals. We should be celebrating this support, embracing the equality and sharing the open arms of acceptance.
I’m an American living in Brussels and tonite the doorman at the biggest gay club in town (read not a sex party) would not allow my gay friend and me bring in our 2 girlfriends who have been going there with us for years because of the ‘quota.’
It’s stuff like this which makes everything we fought for to be included in society meaningless. We can’t ask for equality but then not allow straight people into our clubs. It made me sad and I refuse to go to any club that discriminates-no matter who it caters to.
A good blog Elliot. Large groups of straight men and women should not be permitted into gay venues for the reasons you have described. That is the main reason why when I go out, I do not want to be in a straight environment. I do that throughout the working day and when I socialise I want to be with like minded people.
Large groups of straight men are renowned as trouble makers and while I know that we should not tarnish all groups of straight men with the same brush, I believe that G.A.Y and any gay venue has a duty of care to the people inside. Licenced premises are allowed to refuse entry and/or service to any group or individual without giving reason